Post by victorlhouette on Jun 16, 2011 13:06:30 GMT -1
It's not a debate. It is a REAL THING. I HAVE BEEN INSULTED. So have others.
People are insulted Every Single Day by this kind of thing.
Examples abound: www.microaggressions.com/
Racist comments are the most common examples of this. I'm sure you all have heard a whole shit-load of racist remarks made in a "I'm not racist, but..." kind of way.
Do you honestly think it's a better solution for people to 'get over it' when people make comments that are usually meant to belittle because sometimes, maybe, they're not meant offensively? Is that really a better solution than just stopping making redundant comments that can be construed as offensive? If you think so, then you did mean to offend me, even if you don't realise it. If you think I should get over it and you should be allowed make those comments, then even if you apologise for it you do mean to insult me because you have no desire to stop.
Because that's the worst part. The reason these comments are offensive is not because mathematically-speaking, dictionary definition use of language is offensive. It's because the point means nothing. The reason I say there is no such thing as a normal person is because there are so many ways in which people can be prejudiced that it is extremely unlikely that even a single person in the entire world fits all 'norms.' When you consider the fact that a lot of those prejudices are contradictory (being one way in one group is acceptable though in another group is vile and repulsive) it becomes impossible for any norm to exist.
Even if the norm did exist (which it does not as you should clearly be able to see) though, the points are still meaningless. Take the above example - I said "most people" which, going by dictionary-definition language, means 'out of all people, some are not included in this set, but a majority is included) which is no different from your definition of the 'norm.' I kept in my original wording ("everyone") with a strike-through to show how I naturally acted, combined with my ability to over-come such an assumption by... y'know... thinking. But my statement remained relevant and true.
Then, Billy 'corrected' my post by changing the wording to 'normal' people. Going by the definition of the word, our posts had exactly the same meaning. So how was my post in any way flawed? How did my post fail to do justice to the sentiment, in a way that the word 'normal' did not fail? In such a case, the use of the word is offensive because speech does not always refer to exactly what it explicitly refers to. Language is not mathematical - it is changing and interpreted by the audience. So adding a statement which has the exact same 'meaning' but changes the wording to better exclude the minority is an offensive statement as its only apparent purpose is to better exclude.
Simply put though, not everything is academic. I don't go around pointing out when people are thin, fat, black, asian, scarred, deformed, short, ginger, etc. needlessly because even though it might be perfectly accurate and unassuming to say "Hello, you are overweight. A doctor would be seriously concerned about your health." - a statement which is cold, impersonal, not subjective or offensive, but is nevertheless not appreciated when you say it to someone out of the blue, to a stranger or to someone you're supposed to be having a friendly chat with.
People are insulted Every Single Day by this kind of thing.
Examples abound: www.microaggressions.com/
Racist comments are the most common examples of this. I'm sure you all have heard a whole shit-load of racist remarks made in a "I'm not racist, but..." kind of way.
Do you honestly think it's a better solution for people to 'get over it' when people make comments that are usually meant to belittle because sometimes, maybe, they're not meant offensively? Is that really a better solution than just stopping making redundant comments that can be construed as offensive? If you think so, then you did mean to offend me, even if you don't realise it. If you think I should get over it and you should be allowed make those comments, then even if you apologise for it you do mean to insult me because you have no desire to stop.
Because that's the worst part. The reason these comments are offensive is not because mathematically-speaking, dictionary definition use of language is offensive. It's because the point means nothing. The reason I say there is no such thing as a normal person is because there are so many ways in which people can be prejudiced that it is extremely unlikely that even a single person in the entire world fits all 'norms.' When you consider the fact that a lot of those prejudices are contradictory (being one way in one group is acceptable though in another group is vile and repulsive) it becomes impossible for any norm to exist.
Even if the norm did exist (which it does not as you should clearly be able to see) though, the points are still meaningless. Take the above example - I said "most people" which, going by dictionary-definition language, means 'out of all people, some are not included in this set, but a majority is included) which is no different from your definition of the 'norm.' I kept in my original wording ("everyone") with a strike-through to show how I naturally acted, combined with my ability to over-come such an assumption by... y'know... thinking. But my statement remained relevant and true.
Then, Billy 'corrected' my post by changing the wording to 'normal' people. Going by the definition of the word, our posts had exactly the same meaning. So how was my post in any way flawed? How did my post fail to do justice to the sentiment, in a way that the word 'normal' did not fail? In such a case, the use of the word is offensive because speech does not always refer to exactly what it explicitly refers to. Language is not mathematical - it is changing and interpreted by the audience. So adding a statement which has the exact same 'meaning' but changes the wording to better exclude the minority is an offensive statement as its only apparent purpose is to better exclude.
Simply put though, not everything is academic. I don't go around pointing out when people are thin, fat, black, asian, scarred, deformed, short, ginger, etc. needlessly because even though it might be perfectly accurate and unassuming to say "Hello, you are overweight. A doctor would be seriously concerned about your health." - a statement which is cold, impersonal, not subjective or offensive, but is nevertheless not appreciated when you say it to someone out of the blue, to a stranger or to someone you're supposed to be having a friendly chat with.